Top 10 Pitt players: Marino the GOAT, and plenty of debate after that

ALTOONA, Pa. -- I became a huge fan of Pitt football players long before I ever knew anything about Pitt football.

I'm from Arkansas, and the statewide team there has pretty much always been the Dallas Cowboys. Since I'm 48 years old, I got my start in football watching the great Tony Dorsett star for the Cowboys.

I had a No. 33 Cowboys jersey. Most boys I knew growing up in the early 1980s had a No. 33 Cowboys jersey. And I remember watching this incredible play live on "Monday Night Football" on Jan. 3, 1983.

While Dorsett was my favorite player as a child, my all-time favorite football player is Dan Marino. Once he joined the the Miami Dolphins and started reinventing the game with his incredible passing skills, that's the style of football I fell in love with.

I always tell people I love offense, and Marino is the reason for that. Luckily, the Dolphins were on TV in Arkansas at least 10-12 times a year, so I always got to watch Marino toss TD passes to the Marks Brothers, Clayton and Duper. To this day, I still believe Marino is the most skilled passer of all time.

With Aaron Donald's emergence as one of the best defensive players of all time and his Super Bowl victory Sunday with the Los Angeles Rams, I figured it would be fun to rank the 10 greatest Pitt football players of all time and see where Donald belongs on the list.

This little exercise was fun, but man oh man, it was really hard. Ranking legends is extremely difficult and highly subjective.

I would like to ask a favor right up front from Pitt fans: Please spare me the outrage if you think I botched the rankings. This was meant to be a fun look at the extraordinary history of Pitt products, and there really are no right or wrong answers here. Just different sets of criteria.

Pitt has had so many truly outstanding players that coming up with a top 10 and then ranking them in some reasonable order is way, way more difficult than many people think.

Here's why:

Some players were phenomenal in college, but not as much in the NFL. And some players were tremendous in the pros, but maybe not quite as much while at Pitt.

So, which criteria do you lean on most -- college or pro success -- in ranking a top 10?

Again, all of this is subjective, and I tried my best to take both things into account. I watched most of these guys play and researched as much as I could on the ones I didn't see.

This part is VERY important: Pitt has had five players inducted into both the Pro Football and College Football Halls of Fame. There's simply no debating that ALL FIVE of these guys must be on the list: Dan Marino, Tony Dorsett, Mike Ditka, Joe Schmidt, Jimbo Covert.

That leaves only five more spots, for about 8-10 other qualified guys.

Aaron Donald gets one spot. So does Larry Fitzgerald. Each will be in both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame someday.

Surely no one would disagree with any of those seven picks. The problem is that leaves us with only three more spots, and 7-8 deserving guys, so some REALLY tough decisions had to be made.

It also led to me cheating. I just couldn't narrow the list to 10, so I have two guys tied at one spot.

Here are my rankings:

1. DAN MARINO

Marino was a star at Pitt, then revolutionized passing in the NFL, throwing for an incredible 48 TDs in 1984. That was an absurd record back then, as his 48 TDs shattered the previous mark of 36. I saw somewhere a writer called his season "Ruthian" in that Marino obliterated the TD record in the same way Babe Ruth demolished home run records in his era.

Marino also threw for a record 5,084 yards in 1984, another nearly impossible number to believe for that era. Both of his records have since been broken as the NFL shifted toward a passing league with most rules favoring offensive players.

Can you imagine what kind of numbers Marino would put up in the modern NFL, where you can't breathe on a quarterback and defensive backs can't grab onto receivers the way they used to? Something like 65 TDs and way over 6,000 yards would be feasible, which both would be records. Peyton Manning set both records in 2013 with 55 TDs and 5,477 yards.

Marino's lightning quick release and cannon arm were incredible. If you were to build a perfect passing quarterback, you'd start with him in those two elements.

It's a shame Marino only got to one Super Bowl and never one won. The Dolphins were my favorite team, so I watched all of it play out week to week that they won a lot of games because of Marino and in spite of usually bad running games and defenses that couldn't come up with enough big stops.

I've always felt that if Marino had won two or threer Super Bowls, then he, not Joe Montana, would have been considered the greatest quarterback of all time until the more recent generations of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning came along.

I can sing Marino's praises for a long time, but there is something about his college days that I find unbelievable. He threw 23 interceptions and only 17 TDs his senior year at Pitt in 1982. WOW! Talk about how different the game was back then. No quarterback with that kind of TD/INT ratio would even be starting for a team nowadays, yet Marino led Pitt to the Cotton Bowl, a 9-3 finish and No. 10 ranking in the AP poll.

He's a member of both the Pro and College Football Halls of Fame.

2. TONY DORSETT

I can make a strong case that Dorsett should be No. 1. He accomplished more than Marino at Pitt, and his NFL success was similar in lot of ways.

Dorsett is Pitt's only Heisman Trophy winner and led the Panthers to an undefeated season and national title in 1976. Marino never won a national title.

Dorsett also won a Super Bowl, with the Cowboys (1978), which Marino did not.

When he left Pitt, Dorsett was college football's career rushing leader with 6,526 yards. He's also 10th on the NFL career rushing list with 12,739 yards and 23rd in rushing TDs (77). For comparison, Marino is seventh in NFL passing yards (61,361) and seventh in TDs (420).

Ultimately, Marino got the nod on this list because of the way he revolutionized the pass game in the NFL. He was a transcendent quarterback who changed the way the game is played. Dorsett was a superstar but did not change the sport.

Dorsett was first-team All-Pro only one time, which surprised me when I saw that number, and made the second team twice. Marino was three-time first-team All-Pro and made the second team three times, as well.

Dorsett is a member of both the Pro and College Football Halls of Fame.

On a personal note, one of the highlights of my professional sports life occurred when I went to cover a Pitt golf outing about 20 years ago at Dick Groat's course, Champion Lakes. Dorsett showed up a little late and wasn't playing golf, so I was able to sit at a small table with him, longtime sportswriter Sam Ross Jr. and one other reporter, and we shot the bull with Tony for more than an hour.

He told some fantastic stories and could not have been friendlier or more down to earth. I'll never forget the way he smiled when I told him I used to wear that Cowboys No. 33 jersey as a little kid.

It. Was. Awesome!!!!

3. AARON DONALD

Some people are talking about him as the greatest defensive lineman of all time, and even possibly the greatest defensive player ever. The latter seems a bit much, but the former very well could be true, even if it angers Steelers fans who would vote for Mean Joe Greene as the greatest D-lineman of all time.

Let's compare:

Donald: Seven-time first-team All-Pro, three-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year, one Super Bowl title
Greene: Five-time first-team All-Pro, two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year, four-time Super Bowl champ

There's a growing case being made by some that Donald is actually the greatest Pitt football player ever. Who knows, over time, maybe people will remember him that way. I just cannot put him over a revolutionary QB such as Marino right now, while Dorsett won a Heisman, a national title, a Super Bowl and is the 10th leading rusher in NFL history.

OK, OK, but Dorsett was only first-team All-Pro one time, as mentioned previously. Donald's seven first-team selections show that he's superior at his position than Dorsett was as a running back in the NFL. And the fact that we are even having a debate between him and Mean Joe Greene as the greatest lineman is amazing.

Donald can single-handedly change any game, which is astounding to say for a defensive tackle. He did that in the Rams' 23-20 Super Bowl victory over the Cincinnati Bengals, as he started to dominate in the third quarter and then sealed the win with back-to-back fantastic plays on third-and-1 and then fourth-and-1.

Check out this cool video of Donald's final play, which was called by Rams coach Sean McVay.

Should Donald be ranked No. 1 on this list? Hey, I'll concede that it's possible. Defensive tackles aren't sexy and don't put up as many amazing highlight-reel plays as quarterbacks or running backs. And I'll always default to Marino because of how he helped change the game. But Donald is certainly one of the greatest players in NFL history, and he also had an outstanding Pitt career, winning the Outland, Lombardi, Bednarik and Nagurski awards in 2013.

He absolutely will be enshrined in both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame someday.

4. HUGH GREEN

Who was the greatest player ever while at Pitt? It very well might have been Green.

If this top 10 was based only on college success, the phenomenal defensive end might be No. 1, although it would be tough for me to supplant Dorsett, who won the Heisman and a national title.

Green won the Maxwell and Walter Camp awards in 1980 as the best player in college football. He finished second in the Heisman race to South Carolina running back George Rogers. His runner-up finish in the Heisman race was the best by a defensive player ever, until Michigan's Charles Woodson won the award in 1997.

Pretty much every credible list of the greatest college football players of all time has Green very highly ranked. ESPN's list of the 150 greatest players had him at No. 12 overall, and this is what Cardiac Hill wrote in summarizing his place on the list:

Green was Pitt’s top-ranked player at No. 12, and by the panel’s estimation, he was also the greatest defensive end in college football’s history and its second-best defender, with only Dick Butkus ahead of him at No. 8 on the list. Some of the greats he finished ahead of at his position include Reggie White and Bruce Smith, and while he finished second to George Rogers in Heisman voting in 1980, Rogers was not included among ESPN’s top 150 players.

By the way, five other Pitt players made that ESPN top 150: Mike Ditka, Tony Dorsett, Bill Fralic, Larry Fitzgerald and Dan Marino.

Green is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame. His NFL career got off to a great start with two first-team All-Pro selections in 1982 and '83, but while he remained a very good pro for many years, he wasn't an elite player.

Green will never get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, like others on this list. But he was so ridiculously good at Pitt that he deserves to be ranked ahead of some other greats who did enjoy more pro success than he did.

5. MIKE DITKA

The ESPN top 150 list mentioned above ranked Ditka as the greatest tight end in college football history. Football was a much different game back then, as Ditka caught only 45 passes for 730 yards and seven touchdowns in his three college seasons, but his impact on the game was still huge.

Ditka played on both sides of the ball, as he was a defensive end and linebacker, plus he was the punter.

Ditka was a two-time first-team All-Pro and won Super Bowl VI with the Cowboys.

He is a member of both the Pro and College Football Halls of Fame.

We can talk all we want about Ditka as a player, and he was outstanding. But for anyone who grew up in the 1980s or later, his persona and success as a coach gave him even greater legendary status. He led the Bears to victory in Super Bowl XX and became a household name with the help of the classic "Da Bears" skits on "Saturday Night Live."

"Ditka vs. God in a good golf match?"

"Ditka."

"Ditka."

This is just as good as it gets!

6. LARRY FITZGERALD

He finished second in Heisman voting in 2003, behind Oklahoma QB Jason White, and won the Walter Camp Award that year after catching 92 passes for 1,672 yards and 22 touchdowns. He set the NCAA record by catching a TD pass in 18 consecutive games.

Fitzgerald then went on to have a great NFL career and is second all-time in receiving yards with 17,492, behind only Jerry Rice (22,895).

He was first-team All-Pro in 2008 and second team twice.

Fitzgerald had tremendous success in both college and the pros. He's a lock to be inducted into both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame.

7. JOE SCHMIDT

A lot of younger folks may not know much about Schmidt, a linebacker who played at Pitt in the early 1950s. Here's what you need to know: He was first-team All-Pro EIGHT TIMES for the Detroit Lions between 1954-62.

That's more first-team All-Pro nods than any player in Pitt history.

He also won two NFL championships with the Lions in 1953 and '57. He later became the Lions' head coach.

In college, Schmidt was a first-team All-American for Pitt in 1952. He wasn't drafted until the seventh round in 1953, making his NFL success even more incredible.

It's extremely difficult to compare players from different eras, and football was a very different game back in the 1950s. I can't honestly say I know how good of a player Schmidt was, but eight All-Pro nods jumps off the page.

Whether he should be ranked ahead of the more modern players on this list is up to everyone to decide for themselves. But you cannot deny he had a phenomenal pro career.

He is a member of both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame.

8. BILL FRALIC

He's one of the greatest offensive linemen in college football history, and was ranked the 92nd best player ever in ESPN's list of the top 150 college players.

Fralic was a two-time unanimous All-American (1983, '84) and was the No. 2 pick in the 1985 NFL draft, behind Bruce Smith.

He was two-time first-team All-Pro (1986, '87) with the Atlanta Falcons and had an outstanding pro career, being named to the NFL's all-decade team in the 1980s. He is not a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but his name does come up in debates for that distinction.

He is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.

Sadly, Fralic died in 2018 at age 56.

9. JIMBO COVERT AND RUSS GRIMM

Both of these offensive linemen belong in the top 10, so I cheated a bit and put them together so I could squeeze in one additional player.

Covert is a member of both the Pro and College Football Halls of Fame. He was an All-American at Pitt in 1982 and two-time first-team All-Pro (1985, '86) for the Chicago Bears. He was a member of the famed Super Bowl XX Bears team, coached by Mike Ditka.

Grimm won three Super Bowls with the Redskins and was a four-time first-team All-Pro (1983-86). He's a member of Pro Football Hall of Fame but not the College Hall of Fame.

Yes, you absolutely can make a case that these two could be ranked higher on the list, especially Grimm. I put Fralic ahead of both of them because he was considered the more dominant college player and also was very good in the NFL.

All of this is why doing these kind of rankings is very difficult.

10. CURTIS MARTIN

He's the No. 6 rusher in NFL history, with 14,101 yards. To me, he has to be on this list, which meant some outstanding players had to be left off.

Martin led the NFL in rushing in 2004 with 1,697 yards, the last of his 10 consecutive seasons with at least 1,000. He was first-team All-Pro that year and was second team on two occasions.

He's a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The one issue with including Martin on this list is that he wasn't a great running back at Pitt, finishing with 2,643 yards over four seasons, with only one 1,000-yard season (1993). But as I mentioned, being sixth on the NFL career rushing list warranted him being in my top 10.

Still, that meant leaving off guys such as Darelle Revis, Chris Doleman and Rickey Jackson. Yes indeed, all three deserve consideration, but if you add one, who would you take off?

Revis is one of the best cornerbacks in NFL history and was four-time first-team All-Pro. He's a lock for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and will be eligible in 2023. Should he be in the top 10 over Martin? Hey, I wouldn't really argue with anyone who says so.

Doleman and Jackson are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and they also received strong consideration from me.

That's my list. I'm sure many will debate it and the rankings, but it just goes to show how many great players Pitt has produced that putting together a top 10 is so difficult.